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eharvey650: Your use of terminology my be confusing some of us which is fine. Now that you have stated your knowledge level we know a little better how to word our answers. You use the term "conduit". Without me having to re-read all your responses to be specific lets start with the correct termonology first. This will help. What do you mean by conduit? Are the wires (individual conductors) within a "pipe" we will call it now whether it be metal or plastic PVC, metal sleeve? A Romex is a set of conductors within a sheath outter layer and within are individual conductors each having its own insulation (except for ground most times). Let's not confuse cables with wires with conduit etc. You can call a romex a cable, the conductors inside are just that conductors or wires. Some cities and towns require conduit to be used in residential homes so it is not uncommon but not in many places. I think Chicago is one of them. However if it is conduit keep in mind that the electrician wiring did not have to use a specific color conductor when running the wires within the conduit where as if it is a manufactured romex cable the colors are normally standard. First, is it a conduit or Romex.
Here is said
"The red wire is going to the light fixture. And a 6 inch section of black wire is tied in with the 4 white wires at the wire nut, and that black wire then connects to the light fixture. "
It seems that they used black wire as a jumper from the neutral (white wires) to the light which should be connected to the white wire of the light fixture. They should have use white. The red wire going to the fixture I would assume is connected to the black wire of the light fixture. How many wires (conductors) are coming from the light fixture itself?
And does the light fixture have a fan. If so is there a separate switch you use to turn on the fan only?
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I believe he was told he needs a DMM = digital multi meter - to start with other than just the proximity tester.
But if his proximity tester is not even picking up any type of power he does not have to perform any tests.
In his replies though he mentioned he received some type of power coming from the fixture box with his proximity tester.
He is also mixing terminology.
You replied that there are no GFCI receptacles in the bathroom. But please by all means just humor me and double check the entire house. Look everywhere, in the basement too, even behind boxes, shelves etc, outside receptacles if you have any (be sure there is not one hidden behind any shrubs), kitchen, if you have another bathroom in the house check there, even right where your breaker panel is (one customer of mine had one there protecting his bathroom). 85% of the time I find a GFCI tripped somewhere in the home where it was least expected to be. It will take you maybe 20 minutes to look everywhere. Don't miss any wall. Even if you have a garage. This could solve your problem quicker and save you a lot of frustration. Some that I have found in a persons home they did not even know they had and they lived in the home for years.Even though you do not have GFCI receptacles in the bathroom please check other areas of the house. I have found some homes that have GFCI protection in the bathroom by a GFCI in a garage or basement. Yes, this is not code but this does happen. Find all GFCIs in your home first, be sure they are all reset and have power. Doing this first will be far faster and easier in troubleshooting.
eharvey650: Please see post #10 where I say this --
You replied that there are no GFCI receptacles in the bathroom. But please by all means just humor me and double check the entire house. Look everywhere, in the basement too, even behind boxes, shelves etc, outside receptacles if you have any (be sure there is not one hidden behind any shrubs), kitchen, if you have another bathroom in the house check there, even right where your breaker panel is (one customer of mine had one there protecting his bathroom). 85% of the time I find a GFCI tripped somewhere in the home where it was least expected to be. It will take you maybe 20 minutes to look everywhere. Don't miss any wall. Even if you have a garage. This could solve your problem quicker and save you a lot of frustration. Some that I have found in a persons home they did not even know they had and they lived in the home for years.
If you do find any GFCIs please tell us how many and where they are in the home.
bud16415:
NEC basically stipulates (when referring to "code" there are two to follow usually, the NEC and the local AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction). The NEC requires an "unfinished" basement to GFCI protection of the receptacles. I don't believe it states the lights must also be protected. But I just finished a large renovation and my customer requested that there be only one circuit in the basement (he was selling the house) so I put the lights on the same circuit. Started with a large 4x4 metal deep box, put a GFCI in it and ran to the rest of the receptacles and lights from there. A bit of an inconvenience if you trip the GFCI though, have to go searching for it in the dark.
I always put a GFCI (dedicated) at the panel also.
I have seen some crazy wiring where someone takes one GFCI and protects bathrooms, outdoor receptacles and basement receptacles with one. Against code and a pain.
A contractor I work for here and there called me one day and had me come to his job site. He said they lost power in the garage and part of the house. Very large house. They were renovating one of the bays of the garage for a room. When I got there he told me he had his guy check the entire house for a GFCI as I had suggested he do when I spoke to him on the phone prior. When I got there it took me 4 minutes to find the culprit. A tripped GFCI behind a very large cabinet in the garage. His guy said the cabinet was too large to move so he did not look behind it to see if one was there. So the guy spent 3 hours looking for the problem elsewhere. It took me 4 minutes. That is why I say you have to look everywhere. His guy just did not want to move the cabinet (too lazy).
You could have wired the lights off the line side and the outlets off the load side.:nono:
I agree with some others that have suggested this; since there is a bathroom involved please be sure (that if there is a GFCI receptacle in the bathroom), that the GFCI did not trip. Although a circuit for a bathroom may not go to any other room except for another bathroom does not mean someone did not do this. Some electricians do put the bathroom lights on the GFCI. I for one does when my customer requests it. I usually give them the option when wiring. Yes, putting the lights on a gfci may end you up in the dark if it trips but also when coming out of the shower or washing your hands and flipping the light switch you could get a shock, so therefore GFCI is handy in that case. Personal preference..
...hmm...
On a learning curve here so please bear with me...
So it is possible for current to ground through a toggle swith if the user is around water? In this case, all bathroom lights should also be GFCI protected? I would put them on a separate circuit but it is a good idea, right?
Same with a kitchen sink. While now a DW and/or GD must be on separate GFCI circuits (old code wasn't) the kitchen sink overhead light circuit doesn't have to be.
To put them on a separate GFCI circuit would be a good idea if the overhead light switch is at the kitchen sink...
...hmm...
On a learning curve here so please bear with me...
So it is possible for current to ground through a toggle swith if the user is around water? In this case, all bathroom lights should also be GFCI protected? I would put them on a separate circuit but it is a good idea, right?
Same with a kitchen sink. While now a DW and/or GD must be on separate GFCI circuits (old code wasn't) the kitchen sink overhead light circuit doesn't have to be.
To put them on a separate GFCI circuit would be a good idea if the overhead light switch is at the kitchen sink...
I modern bathroom with with all plumbing in plastic pipe, that water you are standing in has to some how lead to the ground at the outlet or switch box.
That is true, however there are other ways there could be a problem. Someone standing in the shower, decides it is too dark, leans out of the shower and reaches for the light switch to turn on the bathroom lights (body still in shower, hand on switch). A child washing their hands at the sink, one hand in the water, other hand soaking wet reaching for the light switch. Chances are slim but the added protection some people like. It does not cost much more to run the wires that way and as I said I give them the option. Yes there are codes as to how far a light switch must be from the shower but even in my house, built many years ago the two light switches and receptacle are right outside the shower curtain. Poor planning.
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