Question about painting with Kilz

Discussion in 'Painting Forum' started by maxpatch, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. Mar 8, 2010 #1

    maxpatch

    maxpatch

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    I have a stain on my ceiling that I need to cover with Kilz.

    1. Can I spray Kilz over just the spot and then repaint the entire ceiling? (Will ceiling paint cover where I used the Kilz?)

    2. If I paint the entire ceiling with Kilz will I then "have" to repaint the ceiling with ceiling paint? (Or will just the Kilz look good?)http://www.houserepairtalk.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=41972
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2010
  2. Mar 8, 2010 #2

    kok328

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    Yes - entire repaint. Kilz doesn't need to be applied like paint in terms of see thru coverage.
     
  3. Mar 9, 2010 #3

    Bud Cline

    Bud Cline

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    Use the "ORIGINAL" Kilz. Don't waste your time with the new and improved Kilz - because it's not.:)
     
  4. Mar 9, 2010 #4

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    Max:

    When a stain bleeds through paint or primer, what's actually happening is that the stain is dissolving in either the water or mineral spirits of the water based or oil based primer or paint.

    KILZ is actually an ordinary oil based primer. The difference is that instead of using 100% mineral spirits as the thinner like other oil based primers, it uses a 60% naptha and 40% mineral spirits mixture as the thinner. Naptha evaporates many times faster than mineral spirits, and so KILZ dries much faster than an ordinary alkyd primer. The whole idea here is to have the KILZ become too thick too quickly for the stain to migrate to the surface and discolour that surface. That would result in the stain "bleeding through" the KILZ.

    If the stain was caused by water, or anything water based, it probably won't dissolve in mineral spirits, and you could probably use ANY oil based primer to hide it.

    Also, I see absolutely no reason for repainting the whole ceiling with KILZ. If the KILZ area shows through your paint, you just need to apply another coat of paint.

    About ceiling paint. Ceiling paint is nothing more than a low quality wall paint. They don't use as hard binders in ceiling paints because you generally don't have to scrub stubborn marks off of ceilings like you do walls. If it were me, I would use a higher quality wall paint on your ceiling to get better hide of the white spot caused by the KILZ (or other primer).

    If you do opt for using any other oil based primer, try to get a high hiding primer. Often primers don't have good hide, and that requires several costs of primer or paint to cover a patch.
     
  5. Mar 10, 2010 #5

    Bud Cline

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    Shellac!

    KILZ is pigmented shellac. Shellac seals most everything and won't allow stains to penetrate.:)
    If you use shellac you will have to repaint however cause the shellac will be yellowish.:)
     
  6. Mar 11, 2010 #6

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    Bud:

    BIN Sealer (made by Zinnser) is a shellac based primer.

    KILZ Original (made by MasterChem) is an "oil based" (alkyd) primer.

    Both are meant to be used as stain blockers, but it's simply not very difficult to prevent a stain from bleeding through a primer if you use a primer the stain doesn't dissolve in. If it's a stain on a ceiling, it's usually caused by leaking water, and water based stains won't dissolve in an oil based primer.

    So, most stains that KILZ will block could have and would have been blocked by any oil based primer. KILZ claim to be a stain blocking primer rests entirely in the fact that it uses a 60/40 solution of naptha and mineral spirits as it's thinner, so it dries much more rapidly than typical alkyd primers that use only mineral spirits as the thinner. The idea here is to have the primer dry so fast that anything that dissolves in it doesn't have time to diffuse through the primer film to the surface and discolour it before the primer film is too thick to allow diffusion through it.

    If the stain bleeds through both an oil based and latex primer, it's not a "stain" at all, but simply dried up dirt that's getting both primers dirty.

    The trick in blocking stains is simply to use a primer that the stain won't dissolve in. You can check to see which kind of primer will work first by simply cleaning the stain with a paper towel dampened with water and one dampened with mineral spirits. A stain that dissolves in alcohol will bleed through a shellac based primer like BIN.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  7. Mar 11, 2010 #7

    Bud Cline

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    Yow, got that part, you said that already.:)
     
  8. Dec 8, 2014 #8

    jabberwocky

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    To Max. Kilz is not an ordinary house primer. Kilz is a stain blocker. The reason it blocks so well is. ; because it dries faster than the stain can come through. This is great for stain blocking. There is no better product than Kilz original stinky sealer . However as an exterior house primer. DONT USE IT IN ENTIRE HOME. I sued Kilz in the 80's and was successful in getting a home I had painted repainted at Kilz expense. Kilz also changed the label to read; " Not recommended as a whole house primer. The reason I was successful is the eeason Kilz is such a great product for blocking stain. Not allowing anything to go through. Such as moisture in your home. However. Moisture is in your home and your home needs to breathe to exhale this moisture. It does so by the sun pulling moisture in your home through your walls and back to nature. When you apply kilz original primer to your whole hiuse. Your hiuse cannot breathe. Since kilz original dries so quick it does not adhere to exterior wood properly. So the moisture from inside your home is trapped behind the Kilz. Soon. The kilz lets go and you have sheets of paint leaving with the wind and rain. It takes about a year to start seeing evidence of this mistake. So my advice as a proffesional house painter and having been down the road I explained. Dont make the same mistake again. To answer Max and his mistake on kilz is a house primer. Max is wrong. An oil house primer is slow drying allowing the oils in the primer to penetrate the wood before drying giving the primer "tooth" and ready for an intermediate coating of your choice once cured. Good primers take at least three days to cure. With the exception of Glided. Which I would nit recommend because they do not stand behind their product. Kilz did. I still use Kilz as a stain blocker for that reason. They are a good company.
     
    slownsteady likes this.
  9. Dec 8, 2014 #9

    nealtw

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    Welcome to the site, old thread but good info, thanks.
     

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