Replacing broken Jameco stem

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum' started by Highway55, Apr 23, 2010.

  1. Apr 23, 2010 #1

    Highway55

    Highway55

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    I have a Jameco toilet shut off valve dial that has broken off from the stem. It doesn't currently leak.

    My questions:
    What type of valve is it (compression or sweat)?
    Is it possible to use a Brasscraft stem to replace the current stem?
    What is the best way to get the threaded stem out?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Sorry about the bad cell phone photos.
     
  2. Apr 24, 2010 #2

    Bud Cline

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    That looks to be a 1/2" X 3/8" compression stop.

    It would be a lot easier and wiser to simply replace the whole fitting. Those things tho repairable, aren't usually.:)
     
  3. Apr 24, 2010 #3

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    Highway55:

    There is a Canadian company called "Dahl" that sells stops like that. They look just like your typical Brasscraft stop, but they have a plastic stem just like your valve. I wouldn't be at all surprised if your valve and the ones Dahl sells came from the same factory in China. See if any of the plumbing wholesalers in your area carry Dahl. It's very possible because Dahl was the first company to produce a "mini-ball valve" for use as a toilet supply shut off, and those were very popular in both Canada and the USA.

    The way you'd remove what's left of that stem is simply by removing the large hexagonal packing nut. It's a standard right hand thread so you'd turn it counter clockwise to remove it. Under the packing nut will be a rubber packing and a thin round brass plate. The rubber packing may very well come out with the packing nut. Sometimes that brass plate will get jammed in the valve. If you have any trouble removing the brass plate, just turn what's left of the spindle to open the valve, and in so doing, the stem will push the brass plate out of the valve.

    I'd have a Brasscraft stop on hand so that you can compare the stems. I'd say there's a better than even chance the Brasscraft stem would fit. If not, then I think your best bet would be to buy a compression style Brasscraft valve and replace the whole valve.
     
  4. Apr 24, 2010 #4

    Bud Cline

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    ...and it is likely the valve seat is pitted and corroded from years of water travelling through the valve.

    Good Lord! Go to Home Depot or Ace hardware and buy a new valve and be done with it. What are we talkin"? Four bucks?:)
     
  5. Apr 25, 2010 #5

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    It's only a $4.00 repair if everything goes as planned, just like on TV.

    I ended up writing a blurb on how to solder copper pipe because of a post in here where a guy had replaced a compression style valve and couldn't get it to stop leaking despite having tightened the bygeezus out of he compression nut. And he was convinced that further tightening was going to do more harm than good. He didn't know what to do so he posted in here asking for advice.

    If I was Highway55, I'd probably try to replace the stem before I replaced the valve too, and it's not the $4.00 I'd be concerned about. It'd be the $140 to call a plumber to replace that valve with a soldered one cuz I couldn't get the compression fitting to stop leaking.

    Highway55:
    If you do end up replacing that valve, have a back-up plan in place. Make sure you have a basin that will fit under the valve and be large enough that it can catch a full night's sleep worth of water dripping. Also, if you replace the valve, you should plan on using a braided stainless steel flex tube to connect from the valve to the toilet. There are two kinds of braided flex; "Closet" and "Faucet" because the thread on a toilet ballcock is different than that on a faucet. You want the one called "Closet" if you're connecting to a toilet. Those braided stainless steel flex tubes cost about $5 to $10, but they're very reliable when it comes to not leaking. Finally, don't attempt to replace your valve on a Friday when you're going to have to pay extra to get a plumber to bail you out on the weekend if necessary. Do it during the week so that you can get bailed out at only $80 per hour on a weekday.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2010
  6. Apr 25, 2010 #6

    Bud Cline

    Bud Cline

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    Ya might have known! Kelebay is once again turning a fender bender into a train wreck.

    Good luck H55, I hope it all works out for the best.:)
     
  7. Apr 27, 2010 #7

    Highway55

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    Thanks for the help. I got a stem that I think might work, but I know I may have to replace the valve if it comes to that. I'll let you guys know.
     
  8. Apr 27, 2010 #8

    Redwood

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    :clap: :beer: :clap: I was just keeping quiet...

    I suppose we can just be glad that Nestor isn't on You Tube...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xDMdpr9qAU"]Click Here To Watch a Self Appointed You Tube Expert...Oh Boy![/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Ggb_Ozl4E"]Nestor Playing With Trains... Oh Boy![/ame]
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  9. Apr 27, 2010 #9

    Bud Cline

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    Did anyone notice that the genius in that video never mentioned that after the water supply is turned off the next thing to do would be to drain the tank BEFORE BEFORE BEFORE you loosen the tank bolts.

    The ole Kelebay Klipper would have never overlooked that very important point.

    Now see.........it's guys like that that think so much of themselves that all of us real tradesmen have to compete against every day.

    Can you imagine the surprise of Harry Homeowner when he embarks on that project following those instructions and suddenly dumps 2-1/2 gallons of water on his floor before he can get it stopped?:)

    I love it!:clap:
     
  10. Apr 28, 2010 #10

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    Highway55:

    Don't believe anyone that tells you that you can just stick a new valve body onto that old ferule and compression nut and not have to worry about a leak. A lot of the time you can do that and get away with it, but a lot of the time you can't.

    If you end up with a leak at the compression fitting on that 1/2 inch pipe, be prepared to:

    1. Wrap the old ferule with teflon tape and hope for the best,
    2. Cut the pipe off and use the new ferule and compression nut, or
    3. Cut the pipe off and get someone to solder a new valve on the pipe for you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010
  11. Apr 28, 2010 #11

    Redwood

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    If the valve was close to the wall I'd worry a little and use a ferrule puller but in this case I see plenty of pipe which could easily be cut off if needed...

    Some people make mountains out of mole hills...
    It's just what they do best...:rolleyes:
     
  12. Apr 28, 2010 #12

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    I'm on dial-up so I can't watch videos because they take too long to load.

    The ole Kelebay Klipper would have snuck a peek between the tank and the bowl to see what hardware is between them before loosening the nuts under the bowl. Most tank-to-bowl kits nowadays have two extra nuts and two extra washers that allow you to take the tank off the bowl without draining the tank first. (And, that's how I've always done it, even before they included the extra hardware in the tank-to-bowl kits. And, even now, my system is arguably better because I always use brass JAM nuts, which are half the thickness of regular nuts, and that allowed me the extra space to include a rubber washer on both sides of the tank bottom.)

    Here are 4 different images that Google - Image found for the character string "tank-to-bowl kit".

    [​IMG]
    Why would the above kit have four stainless washers and four brass nuts unless two of the washers and two of the nuts were intended to go between the tank and the bowl?

    [​IMG]
    The plastic nuts go under the tank, so that leaves the stainless nuts and washers no where to go but between the tank and the bowl.

    [​IMG]
    The wing nuts go under the bowl. So guess where the hex nuts go?

    [​IMG]
    And, here they pretty much spell it out for ya.

    And in each case, that extra nut and washer on each bolt is there so that you can take the tank off the bowl without draining it first.

    Google - Image found 729 images for "tank-to-bowl kit" and the biggest hunk of them include the extra hardware to allow you to take the tank off the bowl without emptying it first.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010
  13. Apr 28, 2010 #13

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    And here's one where they got the hardware requirements right, but the order of assembly wrong:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Apr 28, 2010 #14

    Redwood

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    Damn Nestor!

    You are the "King of Google Searches"

    be-the-king-in-google.jpg
     
  15. Jul 14, 2010 #15

    dahlman

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    Hi all,

    I just came across this thread and, as one of the owners of Dahl, I need to clarify something.

    We do not make, and have not ever made, any valves in China. Dahl designs, engineers and manufactures its own valves. We buy ALL of our brass bar stock and Teflon rod in the U.S.A. and machine those materials in our factory just outside of Toronto. We then assemble those components into finished valves. I will grudgingly admit that our braided connectors are bought from an American supplier who sources in China, but only because it's been impossible to find a domestic manufacturer who can meet our requirements.

    We have never made multi-turn supply stops, however we do have a 1/4 turn retrofit valve that will piggy-back right onto the 3/8 OD Comp outlet of that Jameco valve. It is our part number 111-41-31.

    I'll set up my account to get email notification of any questions regarding our products and/or their applications, and do my best to always reply as soon as possible.

    Thanks!
    Thomas aka Dahlman
     

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