Resurfacing Concrete Floor & acid stain floor

Discussion in 'Flooring' started by SPISurfer, Oct 14, 2008.

  1. Oct 14, 2008 #1

    SPISurfer

    SPISurfer

    SPISurfer

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    1
    After tile removal, there were divots and mortar raised chunks in the cement slab. I ground down the chunks to be level. There was also black mastic under some spots.
    1) Can I skim coat over black mastic?
    2) What do I use to patch the divots? Will the skim coat be enough to cover the divots?

    I have acid stained before in 1999. It held up great with the top coat sealant until our hurricane/flood this year. After being under 7 inches of standing water for about 24 hours, the sealant has started peeling.

    3) Please provide any suggestion for removing the sealant - ammonia?
    I used Behr Epoxy 1 coat clear for the sealer as the acid stain company's sealer was too expensive for me.

    Now that I've removed the white tile (yuck) I'd like to do the whole house with acid stain. I don't want tile. The removal process was nasty, dusty. Plus some of my neighborhood who had newer installations were complaining for about 1 month about the squish they heard under their tiles.

    I need to come to some floor decisions.
     
  2. Oct 14, 2008 #2

    NOVA Pros

    NOVA Pros

    NOVA Pros

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    0
    SPI,

    In my experience, working with acid stain and concrete, you should get up as much mastic as possible, by using a scarifier or such. After you get up the majority of the mastic, putting a skim coat over it would be fine. Then you could acid stain the skim coat. You can also fill in small divots with the skim coat material. If larger, just use some concrete patch, let set, then put skim coat over that.

    To remove the sealant, you can use a grinder to scratch the surface, but then re-seal and all the grooves and scratches will be filled in and look smooth.

    Let me know if I can answer any more questions. I use to work with decorative overlay (sprays and stamps), pavers, stamped concrete, and such.

    Allison
     
  3. Oct 15, 2008 #3

    SPISurfer

    SPISurfer

    SPISurfer

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    1
    Allison,

    I was hoping not to have to grind. Late Night's Grinder Girl has nothing on me.

    1) What would happened if I put the skim coat over the mastic after roughing it up a bit?
    2) What do I buy for the skim coat? I found some self leveling stuff at HD in the tile section but it needs a liquid with it. I don't think I have the right stuff. I haven't found much help at the stores.

    In 1999 I tried to remove the mastic in some parts of the house. I tried naptha and toluene (I'll probably die from chemical use) and an industrial floor sander. I couldn't get it up. The mastic would bind to the sand paper/ floor pad and continue to stick. The chemicals would make it somewhat of a gooey substance, but would not come off entirely.

    3) What do you suggest for trying to remove the mastic?

    Thank you for confirming my thoughts on tackling the sealer. I'm pretty beat down with house projects. I'll do a spot test in the closet of just plan ol' putting more sealer on top to see how it comes out.

    Any suggestion are welcomed. I'll figure this out eventually.
     
  4. Oct 15, 2008 #4

    glennjanie

    glennjanie

    glennjanie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,990
    Likes Received:
    4
    Welcome SPISurfer:
    The mastic should be completely removed. It will interfere with the bonding of any skim coat and will repel any acid stain.
    See if the local rental store has a vinyl and carpet removing machine. It has an oscillating blade in front and 2 wheels on the back, electric powered. It will take some time but this machine will scrape the mastic off the concrete.
    I would ask the skim coat supplier if it is stainable. Some skim coats contain epoxy (which may make it too hard) and some contain latex (which will make it repellant).
    Glenn
     
  5. Oct 20, 2008 #5

    SPISurfer

    SPISurfer

    SPISurfer

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thank you much Glenn Janie --- I wondered about that latex. I've managed to stall on the flooring project and have gone onto plumbing and windows for now.
     
  6. Oct 23, 2008 #6

    SPISurfer

    SPISurfer

    SPISurfer

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    1
    Here are some pictures: acid stain, divots in the concrete where tile was removed, painted concrete.

    I'm still trying to determine what concrete/tile flooring we'll be using.

    010.jpg

    009.jpg

    011.jpg
     
  7. Nov 27, 2008 #7

    billy1955

    billy1955

    billy1955

    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    remove black mastic with soybean jell works great on concrete floors with out grinding the floor with all the dust.

    If you can not find the product where you live let us know. I can give you the name of the company we buy from.

    Thanks bill
     
  8. Nov 28, 2008 #8

    PortlandTradesmen

    PortlandTradesmen

    PortlandTradesmen

    Construction Advisor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    First thing that stands out to me is that if you have a black mastic it would be prudent to have it tested for asbestos.

    Next for the best look I always recommend grinding. I've ground floors myself and hired people that specialize in concrete grinding after doing both I'm definitely a fan of hiring out that portion of the job. A commercial grinding company will get it done quick and usually have excellent dust collection systems.

    If your set on doing it on your own there are propane grinders that have a water feed so no dust but plenty of work cleaning up the slurry any way.

    I find with a good skim coat product you may spend nearly as much on the product as you would hiring a grinding contractor.

    As far as the sealers go as aggravatingly expensive as they are the good ones are their worth the money.

    I've definitely done skimming, grind staining and repair so feel free to ask if you have additional questions.
     
  9. Dec 5, 2008 #9

    yesitsconcrete

    yesitsconcrete

    yesitsconcrete

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    realize this was back in oct '08 but maybe some'll still read it:

    nope, NO skim coat til the floor's CLEAN

    patching the divots can be done w/patching cement ( we use sika ) & it can be colored to match the existing conc,,, ck w/sher-wms for some of their 877 tints & experiment,,, don't be discouraged if its not right in the 1st hr,,, no one ever got experience/technique/knowledge from reading labels, pamphlets, websites, or talking w/customer-no-svce personnel

    the 'behr' name's a tipoff you got it at the apron store - not for pro's - had you used the right stuff, it wouldn't have been touched by the flood,,, next time find a urethane sealer & do a moisture test 1ST,,, strippers you can buy from apron stores, tho,,, did try the soy/citrus stuff once but a nitemare mess,,, we use ammonia only for neutralizing acid.

    next time get dust muzzles to hook up to a wet/dry vac,,, we buy ours from dustless technologies { no financial interest },,, we use turbo diamond cup wheels in 12 & 24 segment style depending on whether we're leaving the floor stain-rdy OR prep'd for thin-cementitious overlays.

     
  10. Dec 8, 2008 #10

    SPISurfer

    SPISurfer

    SPISurfer

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hey Yes,
    Thanks for the reply! I want to make sure I get this correct.
    1. Remove mastic/paint - ok ok I'm working on it - mineral spirits and a scrapper. As I said earlier the rented floor machine just gets gummed up with the mastic.
    2. Patch with Sika
    3. Grind with a diamond blade
    4. Thin-cementitious overlay
    5. Acid stain
    6. Clean
    7. Use a urethane sealer

    I don't understand about the tint from Sherwin Wms. Are you suggesting a tint/floor paint from them verses using epoxy paint or an acid stain?
     
  11. Dec 9, 2008 #11

    yesitsconcrete

    yesitsconcrete

    yesitsconcrete

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    1st off, you won't find anything at apron stores that pro's use let alone anyone w/even BASIC knowledge of what you're trying to get done INCLUDING the paint dept,,, takes too much time & the mkt's too small for decent sales/profits compared to any other dept in the store,,, most dec conc suppliers have training class attendance as a basic rqmt but not all,,, i have seen const supply houses where suitable mtls can be found.

    yes, the mastic's gotta go & how you do it is the devil's details,,, that vibrating oscillating blade only gets good stuff while the remainder's gotta be done w/grinders & diamond turbo cup wheels,,, we prefer 12seg for the initial grind & 24seg for the remainder,,, after grinding & adjusting the conc's ph, its not unusual to apply 2, or even 3, base coats { most can be integrally colored, btw ),,, the most often heard complaint is ' ghosting ' of the lines 'tween the tiles UP into the flooring overlay,,, another method to prevent this is an epoxy layer loaded w/dry, CLEAN sand aggregate to rejection.

    there are liquid strippers ( beaneedoo, etc ) but they leave stains which must be covered so that's a wash imn-s-hfo,,, on occasion, i'll use a propane weedburner torch & ice scraper but the finishing step's always grinders - sorry, charlie :(

    latex in a cementitious dec conc overlay ? ? ? not in my lifetime - latex-modified mtls're much different than polymer-modified in results/method/intent/design/scope,,, for the most part, latex is anathema to the dec conc craft altho my bride & i have some discreet pieces :eek:

    look at concretenetwork, elitecrete, decorative concrete forums, concrete locator, etc for more info,,, you may find a new vocation, btw :)

    good luck - feel free to send me an e
     
  12. Dec 10, 2008 #12

    drizzle

    drizzle

    drizzle

    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Also have a look at DCsurfaces products. You can Google their website address. Their overlay is pretty easy to use, can patch the divots, and produces great results when acid stained. Once you knock off the high spots of mastic and the floor is smooth, but the glue/mastic is still in the pores of the concrete you can use this overlay.

    The previous poster is correct, your not going to find good help from a big box store. They just don't have the products or experience for a specialty flooring like acid stain.
     
  13. Dec 11, 2008 #13

    yesitsconcrete

    yesitsconcrete

    yesitsconcrete

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    0
    as this is our work, we don't fool w/spirits-scrapers as it takes too long,,, we do use hand grinders fitted w/dust shrouds which you can rent at an apron store.

    sher-wms will sell you tints that you can add to solvent sealers,,, drizzle's shilling imn-sohfo.

     
  14. Dec 18, 2008 #14

    drizzle

    drizzle

    drizzle

    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    nope, just offering help and advice like everyone else here.
     

Share This Page