Adapter for portable gas stove?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum' started by ilyaz, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. Feb 4, 2010 #1

    ilyaz

    ilyaz

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  2. Feb 4, 2010 #2

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    Well, you've come to the right place, Ilyaz

    The kind of thread you have on a disposable propane tank (like the kind used for camping) is called a "BernzOMatic" thread after the company that first made propane soldering torches popular in the 1950's:

    ABOUT US

    Depending on it's age, the kind of valve you have on your barbque grill's propane tank will either be a "POL" valve or an Acme valve. Since Acme is not the only company making the Acme style of propane tank valve, that style is commonly referred to as a "QCC" valve or "QCC" connection (short for Quick Closing Coupling). This web site explains the difference between POL and QCC propane tank valves:

    RVbasics.com - RV propane cylinders and cylinder recertification

    POL valves have a female left hand thread. QCC valves are backward-compatable with POL valves because they have both a right hand male thread and a POL left hand female thread on the same valve outlet.

    So, all you need to do is phone up any propane wholesaler listed in your yellow pages under "Propane" and ask if they have a BernzOMatic-to-QCC or BernzOMatic-to-POL adapter. The should have them, and it'll probably cost you about $20.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  3. Feb 4, 2010 #3

    ilyaz

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    N_K, thanks much for the detailed response. I have the QCC type. Does this adapter look right to you?

    Century 8-Foot Hose with Type 1 Adapter at REI.com

    At least the QCC side seems right to me. The other side I think is OK too.

    By the way, why is it called "type 1"?
     
  4. Feb 5, 2010 #4

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    Ilyaz: Yes, it looks to me like that hose would do what you want. It has a Type 1 connector on one end that would connect to your 40 pound propane tank and it has what appears to be a BernsOMatic thread at the other end, suitable for a small camping appliance or propane torch. You should be able to connect your camping stove to your Bar-B-Que's propane tank using that hose from what I can see.

    It's called a "Type 1" connector because that hose connects using the RIGHT HAND MALE THREADS on the OUTSIDE of the propane tank's valve outlet. All Type 1 connections will have that big plastic nut (called a "Marshall type Acme nut") and it's what threads onto the male threads on the outside of the propane tank valve.

    If it used a quick disconnect coupling like you see on the compressed air hoses at gas stations, it would be called a Type 2 connector. That is, the big black plastic nut would be replaced with a quick disconnect like you see on compressed air hoses at gas stations. And, of course, you could only connect that hose to a propane tank that had a Type 2 valve on it.

    If that hose connected to the propane tank using the female left hand threads (the POL threads) on the inside of the propane tank valve outlet, then it would be a "Type 3" connection. That is, instead of the big black plastic nut on one end of the hose, you'd have a brass piece with external left hand threads.

    The difference between a POL propane tank valve and a Type 3 QCC propane tank valve is that the QCC valve has a float that fits inside the tank that prevents you overfilling the tank. When the tank is 80 percent full of liquid propane, the float rises and shuts the valve so that tank can't be filled any further. The old POL valves never had that feature. All QCC propane tank valves have that float that prevents overfilling.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  5. Feb 5, 2010 #5

    ilyaz

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    N_K, one more q. This adapter has no valves. Do you know if there are similar adapters with a good valve?

    By the way, my intention is to use this inside our house while we do kitchen renovation. Therefore I want another means -- in addition to the burner knobs on the stove itself -- of cutting off the gas.
     
  6. Feb 5, 2010 #6

    Redwood

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    What does your Coleman Stove say about using it indoors?

    CARBON MONOXIDE HAZARD
    • This appliance can produce
    carbon monoxide which has
    no odor.
    • Using it in an enclosed space
    can kill you.
    Never use this appliance in an
    enclosed space such as a
    camper,
    tent, car or home.

    • EXPLOSION - FIRE HAZARD
    • Never store propane near high heat, open flames, pilot lights, direct
    sunlight, other ignition sources or where temperatures exceed 120
    degrees F (49°C).
    • Propane is heavier than air and can accumulate in low places. If you
    smell gas, leave the area immediately.
    • Never install or remove propane tank while outdoor stove is lighted,
    near flame, pilot lights, other ignition sources or while outdoor stove is
    hot to touch.
    • During operation, this product can be a source of ignition. Never use
    the stove in spaces that contain or may contain volatile or airborne combustibles,
    or products such as gasoline, solvents, paint thinner, dust
    particles or unknown chemicals. Minimum clearances from combustible
    materials: 12 inches from the sides & 48 inches from the top.

    • Provide adequate clearances around air openings into the combustion
    chamber.
    Not for home or recreational vehicle use.

    WARNING
    We cannot foresee every use which may be made of our products.
    Check with your local fire safety authority if you have questions
    about use.
    Other standards govern the use of fuel gases and heat producing
    products for specific uses.Your local authorities can advise you about these.
    • Never refill disposable cylinders.
    • Use the preset regulator that came with the stove. Do not attempt to
    adjust.

    • CARBON MONOXIDE HAZARD
    • This stove is a combustion appliance. All combustion appliances produce
    carbon monoxide (CO) during the combustion process. This product is
    designed to produce extremely minute, non-hazardous amounts of CO if
    used and maintained in accordance with all warnings and instructions. Do
    not block air flow into or out of the stove.
    • Carbon Monoxide (CO) poisoning produces flu-like symptoms, watery
    eyes, headaches, dizziness, fatigue and possibly death.You can't see it and
    you can't smell it. It's an invisible killer. If these symptoms are present
    during operation of this product get fresh air immediately!
    • For outdoor use only.
    • Never use inside house, camper, tent, vehicle or other unventilated or
    enclosed areas. This stove consumes air (oxygen). Do not use in unventilated
    or enclosed areas to avoid endangering your life.

    • SERVICE SAFETY
    • Keep all connections and fittings clean. Inspect propane cylinder and
    stove propane connections for damage before attaching.
    • During set up, check all connections and fittings for leaks using
    soapy water. Never use a flame. Bubbles indicate a leak. Check that
    the connection is not cross-threaded and that it is tight. Perform
    another leak check. If there is still a leak, remove the cylinder and
    contact Coleman for service or repairs.
    • Use as a cooking appliance only. Never alter in any way or use with
    any device or part not specifically designed and sold for this product.

    • Clean stove frequently to avoid grease accumulation and possible
    grease fires.

    http://www.coleman.com/coleman/images/pdf/2000000117.pdf

    You may want to rethink your plan...
    If you want I can provide you pictures of a smoldering pile of tooth pics that once was a church where someone temporarily set up propane stoves so they could cook food for some special event they were having...
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  7. Feb 5, 2010 #7

    inspectorD

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    yes, always use an outdoor appliance...outdoors.
    I had mice eat my rubber hose to the tank, thankfully the gas was turned off and I did not hit the garage door opener and find my garage at the neighbors house.
    I did something as simple as store my bbq in the garage...I would never put one in the house.
    :2cents:
     
  8. Feb 5, 2010 #8

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    Not to mention the fact that gas is dangerous and some of these products manufactured with the use of a cartridge in mind weren't made to be used with 20 lb cylinders or any other type of device.

    What your really asking for is a fire or an explosion. Take a cruise through a burn center and see if this is really something you think is worth the $20 bucks for the hose adapter.
     
  9. Feb 5, 2010 #9

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    Ilyaz:

    No, there aren't any valves on the adapter hose, but you screw the big plastic nut onto the VALVE at the top of your propane tank. So, besides the controls on your camp stove, you should also shut the propane off at the tank valve. (and, if it wuz me, I disconnect the hose at the tank for all the time it takes) Otherwise you run the risk of propane leaking into your house through that stove, and that can have an ugly ending.

    If burning the propane indoors depletes the amount of oxygen in the air in the cooking area, then continued burning of the propane is going to result in carbon monoxide being formed instead of CO2. If you're intent on going ahead with this against all the warnings, make sure you install a carbon monoxide detector in the cooking area so that you'll have something to tell you when the situation is becoming dangerous. Better yet, save up all the McDonalds, Burger King and Pizza Hut coupons you get in the mail and use them during the kitchen renovation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  10. Feb 6, 2010 #10

    ilyaz

    ilyaz

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    I found this on Amazon:

    Amazon.com: Safety Siren Combination Gas Detector Model HS80504: Home Improvement

    Does anyone has any info about effectiveness of these?

    Also, I appreciate other people's comments about safety. Clearly, I don't want our house to blow up or ourselves to get poisoned by CO2. However, I'd like to understand better why this stove is inherently more dangerous if used indoors than a regular gas stove (suppose I connect it to a standard small canister rather than to a large tank through an adapter) . Is it because this one does not have a pilot light while a regular stove does?

    Thanks!
     
  11. Feb 6, 2010 #11

    Redwood

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    I found these pictures...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Feb 6, 2010 #12

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    Any takers on this one?

    Ilyaz:
    I can't think of any reason why it would be inherantly any more dangerous than a gas stove. A gas stove MIGHT have an exhaust hood, but if it doesn't then any fuel burning cleanly in your house like methane or propane or even a butane candle could start to produce carbon monoxide if there's insufficient O2 in the air. So, a gas stove burning methane would be just as dangerous to use in a house as a propane stove, so far as I can see. I expect the gas stove might have more reliable controls, tho.

    I believe that much of the reason why Coleman warns you against using your stove in an RV or any enclosed space is because of the limited air volume in a camper. Outdoors, there's little concern that the O2 in the atmosphere is going to become depleted, but that possibility exists in a camper. However, if there's even a slight breeze and if a person keeps the camper windows open so that the breeze can blow through the camper, that ventilation would drastically reduce the liklihood of CO being produced by the propane stove.

    Also, of course, Coleman's lawyers are trying to keep the company out of court. They simply want to warn people against doing anything that even smells like it could have an unhappy ending cuz that might result in the company ending up in court.

    Any major appliance manufacturer that produces natural gas stoves can't tell you that you shouldn't use them inside, but they undoubtedly warn you 16 times in the owner's manual about providing adequate ventilation to avoid the production of carbon monoxide.

    That multi gas detector looks fine to me. I notice that it detects both CO and propane. You could save a few bucks and just buy a CO detector if you disconnected the propane line each time after using the stove. You're not going to need that propane feature once the kitchen renovations are finished.

    Anybody else? Why isn't using gas stove just as dangerous as using a propane stove indoors? It's an excellent question cuz I haven't got an answer.
     
  13. Feb 6, 2010 #13

    oldognewtrick

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    My biggest concerns would be that a stove has hard line to the unit. A cracked propane house can occur in a instant. Secondly does the burner operate as efficiently as a stove burner? Look at redwoods photos, is it worth risking it?
     
  14. Feb 6, 2010 #14

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    Two other things I can think of.

    1. Stoves made to be used inside have automatic turn off devices if the stove gets slightly out of level.
    2. Stoves for indoor use aren't nearly as apt to start a fire by being placed too close to something that might ignite.
    3. Then there is the fume thing, but I said only two, so I won't mention that.

    Then there was the guy who jumped out of a perfectly good airplane and while plummeting towards earth, realized he couldn't get his parachute to open. On the way down, he sees this guy coming up at him. As they got close enough to converse, he asked "Hey buddy, do you know how to open a parachute" to which the guy on his way up added, "No... do you know how to light a gas stove?"
     
  15. Feb 6, 2010 #15

    Redwood

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    Well I'd add the lack of an ignition feature for another one on many of the stoves...

    The other would be...
    Nestor, Do you want your tenants using one of these rigs in your apartment building when one of those old stoves you have installed craps out?:eek:

    Really! I'm sorry to say there isn't much room for argument here...
    When it comes to gas it is a very good fuel to use...
    But!
    When you skirt the issues of safety the consequences are too severe...
    An entire family may not wake up in the morning...
    or,
    A wonderful home can be reduced to a building lot with a smoldering pile of toothpicks on it in an instant!


    Nestor, why don't you stick to googling answers that have less harmful potential!
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
  16. Feb 6, 2010 #16

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    Could we at least agree that Ilyaz would eliminate the possibility of his house blowing up if he kept the propane tank outside when it wasn't in use?
     
  17. Feb 6, 2010 #17

    Redwood

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    Outdoor gas appliances are outdoor gas appliances
    Period end of discussion!
    No concessions offered or, accepted!
     
  18. Feb 6, 2010 #18

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    Egaddds. Are you feeling ganged up on Nestor? If you are, you should be. It's a no brainer that what the poster was trying to do was a very bad idea. Let's leave it at that. Before someone gets killed.
     
  19. Feb 7, 2010 #19

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    Ilyaz:
    Well, it looks like the most politically correct solution is that instead of spending $32.95 on that adapter hose and another $35 on that propane/CO detector, you spend $34.99 to get one of these from w w w.hotplates.com

    Hot Plates-Electric Hot Plates, Single, Double Burner Hot Plate Styles:

    [​IMG]

    ask for the "Aroma double electric range, AHP-312" SKU #ARO1044

    You can get a Proctor Silex single burner element for $20.

    An electric hot plate is much less likely to blow your house up, and you don't have to keep taking the propane tank outside when you're finished using it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  20. Feb 8, 2010 #20

    ilyaz

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    Everybody, thanks for the advice.

    Nestor, sorry I got yourself yelled at by everyone!
     

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