Bathroom Sink Drain-flange repair

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum' started by UnknownVT, Jan 22, 2008.

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  1. Jan 22, 2008 #1

    UnknownVT

    UnknownVT

    UnknownVT

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    Last night my bathroom basin/sink leaked by where the drain pipe joins the bottom of the sink - when I examined the flange at the drain hole - it had corroded at the threads/joint and basically broken off -

    I may be using the wrong terminology -
    so here are some pics -
    [​IMG]

    There is obviously a gap now at the joint -
    [​IMG]

    Close up -
    [​IMG]

    I thought it might be simple to repair - just take the flange to a Home Depot/Lowes and ask what I need to repair this ......

    But I thought I'd ask here first
    - what parts should I be getting, please?
    and any hints/advice in making this repair.

    Also the pop-up plug is now broken at the point where the horizontal pivot rod/actuator connects
    - what do I do to ensure that is adjusted correctly for the new replacement - so I don't break the new one too, and the plug seals well enough so it does not leak?

    Many thanks for any advice or pointers to instructions.
     
  2. Jan 22, 2008 #2

    Hack

    Hack

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    As long as there is no damage to the sink itself, you probably only need to replace the pop up drain assembly. This is only an example. You can get them in most finishes, and probably cheaper than this one from HD...click this link and it will show it to you...

    Oh, and WELCOME!!!!!!!!

    Pop up drain assembly

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Jan 23, 2008 #3

    travelover

    travelover

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    Hack has got it right. Do yourself a favor and don't buy the extra cheapo one. It will leak at the ball joint that pops up the stopper - right away or later.

    Speaking from experience. Put a magnet on the new one and if it sticks to any part, get the next better one.
     
  4. Jan 23, 2008 #4

    Hack

    Hack

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    What he said...:D
     
  5. Jan 23, 2008 #5

    ToolGuy

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    A handy tip... Get a small tube of plumber grease while you're at it, and grease the threads before installing it. It only costs about $3 and will really help the rubber seal slide up against the sink and will help when tightening the nut. Also, some grease around the ball of the pop-up lever will help it operate smoothly.
     
  6. Jan 23, 2008 #6

    MinConst

    MinConst

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    And don't forget to use plumbers putty on the new drain. Just roll it in your hands to make a 1/2" to 3/4" thick snake and place it around the drain where it will meet the top of the sink. Unless you sink is cast it is probably fine. if there is damage to the sink you will 1 replace it or 2 need to rebuild the damage with epoxy. Not an easy task if your not experienced.
     
  7. Jan 23, 2008 #7

    UnknownVT

    UnknownVT

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    Thank you for the kind responses.

    I took just the top flange to a Lowes - and they don't sell just the flange - they had the entire kit - like Hack showed above - these were in the $11-$25 price range in the stores I looked in - they're 1-1/4" pop-up drain assemblies.

    So far, I can't see much, if any, real difference between them (but I will use travelover's magnet tip) - I will probably just buy an entire assembly.

    Fitting does seem commonsense - and I already have some plumbers' putty and teflon tape for the job.

    Thank you again for the responses, and kind advice.
     
  8. Jan 23, 2008 #8

    travelover

    travelover

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    The cheap ones have a chrome plated steel rod that operates the popup through the ball joint. It rusts off and then you have a leak underneath. Yech.
     
  9. Jan 24, 2008 #9

    UnknownVT

    UnknownVT

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    Got you -
    my current one is nylon/plastic -
    I'll look for nylon/plastic
    or something non-magnetic
    (although stainless steel is still magnetic).

    Thanks,
     
  10. Jan 24, 2008 #10

    ToolGuy

    ToolGuy

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    Better quality have brass or stainless rods for the pop-up. Other differences are the tail piece that connects to the drain is plastic (the threads strip easily) or thinner metal (corrodes quicker), the seal around the stopper sometimes leaks (hear a trickle when the sink is full), and I could probably think of more. You get what you pay for.

    If you hold the two of them, one in each hand, the more expensive one will weigh more. That's because they put more brass/stainless into it.
     
  11. Jan 24, 2008 #11

    travelover

    travelover

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    In my experience, stainless steel is not magnetic. At least when I sort nuts and bolts, the stainless don't get picked up by the magnet.
     
  12. Jan 24, 2008 #12

    Hack

    Hack

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    My first choice would be chrome plated brass, or unplated brass. Some stainless will resist rusting, but as you said some grades are slightly magnetic. That's why I try to go with brass or Chrome plated brass.

    Good Luck!
     
  13. Jan 24, 2008 #13

    Hack

    Hack

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    Most SS Bolts are non-magnetic, but some SS parts are slightly magnetic. It depends on the grade of stainless.
     
  14. Jan 24, 2008 #14

    UnknownVT

    UnknownVT

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    Thank you again for the tips.

    I didn't realize that the horizontal pop-up activator rod could be that critical - so many thanks for the advice - like I said my current one is nylon-plastic which obviously does/did not rust/corrode.

    The top drain flange that broke -
    [​IMG]
    - feels nice and heavy, all metal, non-magnetic, may be chrome-plated copper(?) - and (pleading ignorance) seems of high quaility -
    nevertheless it corroded/broke at the threads - probably the worst point to fail ...

    Re: leaking plug - my second bathroom has a basin/sink that has a slowly leaking plug - I found the following page -

    Repair for a Leaky Drain Plug | Bathroom Sinks | Bathrooms ...

    It was simple enough to do - but it didn't stop the slow leak - I guess the plug and flange face probably no longer seal properly.
     
  15. Jan 24, 2008 #15

    UnknownVT

    UnknownVT

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    This is right - some stainless steels are indeed non-magnetic -
    but not all stainless steels are non-magnetic.

    This stands to reason, since steel and stainless steels are mainly still iron/ferrite - which is strongly magnetic.

    eg: a lot of stainless steel cutlery is strongly magnetic.

    Try a Swiss Army Knife which is one of most rust resistant cutlery steels - it jumps at a magnet -
    even the very common 18/8 stainless table flatware cutlery is very strongly magnetic.

    However there is a class of stainless steels that are non-magnetic -
    "There are different types of stainless steels: when nickel is added, for instance, the austenite structure of iron is stabilized. This crystal structure makes such steels non-magnetic and less brittle at low temperatures."

    Austenite stainless steel is paramagnetic -
    - Wikipedia explains in Austenite -

    " Austenite transformation and Curie point
    In many magnetic alloys, the Curie point, the temperature at which magnetic materials cease to behave magnetically, occurs at nearly the same temperature as the austenite transformation. This behavior is attributed to the paramagnetic nature of austenite, while both martensite and ferrite are strongly ferromagnetic."

    But paramagnetism is not necessarily non-magnetic -
    as the 18/8 stainless steel cited above is a very common Austenite stainless steel - but it is still very strongly magnetic.

    From Wikipedia on Magnet -

    "Most popularly found in paper clips, paramagnetism is exhibited in substances which do not emit fields by themselves, but which, when exposed to a magnetic field, reinforce that field by becoming magnetized themselves, and thus get attracted to that field. A good example for this behavior can be found in a bucket of nails - if you pick up a single nail, you can expect that other nails will not follow. However, you can apply an intense magnetic field to the bucket, pick up one nail, and find that many will come with it. "

    Since most paper clips are supposed to be paramagnetic -
    we know that it is still attracted by magnets - ie: magnetic.
     
  16. May 10, 2008 #16

    slorge

    slorge

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    I need to replace my pop up unit, but I cannot get the drain flange off!!

    It's nice brass pipe and I have no leaks, however the inner rod (the part that connects to the pop up plug) has rusted and is basically gone. :mad:

    I'm hoping I can find an exact replacement, because I may have to destroy the flange in order to get it off. Any suggestions for removing it without destroying it (or the sink!)

    I have minimal experience at plumbing and not the best tools, so any help would be appreciated.
     
  17. Dec 29, 2009 #17

    Lvs2MffDv

    Lvs2MffDv

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    In my experience with stainless alloys, the 300 series of stainless steels are non-magnetic. 303 304 304L 316 321 and 347 are examples.

    With knives, the ability to be hardened is the ability to hold a sharp edge. However, most every quality knife blade stainless is magnetic. example: Grade 440 is popular, and there are many "specialty" blends. Knives need a hard, yet tough blade, to maintain sharpness and not be brittle and prone to breakage. Hence the secrecy surrounding alloys and heat treat processes developed by fine knife fabrication outfits. For more insight, research Japanese sword making.

    Also Precipitation Hardening stainless steels, such as 15-5 and 17-4 are magnetic. These "stainlesses" will also rust if left to the elements over time.

    Additional information: 300 series stainless steels are not heat-treatable to higher hardness values. The magnetic stainless (15-5 17-4 and 17-7 Ph types) are able to be heat treated and obtain more hardness.

    I believe the carbon content is what allows heat treating to be obtained in "stainless" steels.

    Last thought - observation: 300 series are very corrosion resistant, 316 sst can be submerged in boiling acid without ill effect, at least long enough to "eat" a broken carbon steel tap out of the hole it broke in.

    Salt water will corrode even 300 series stainless, but this is due more to an electrical effect eating away at it than a chemical reaction. Salt water boating friends can tell you more.

    For maximum "stainless" performance, a process called "Passivation" is performed on finished parts made from stainless steel. The matal parts are submerged in an acid solution for a period of time. This removes surface contaminates such as microscopic bits of forging dies, cutting tools, and abrasive media trapped and galled into the metals surface, and leaves the metal with a "passive" layer caused by the reaction that protects the raw metal beneath from the onslaught of corrosion or oxidation.
    Passivation is mandatory to gain the full benifit of the corrosion resistant properties of the 300 series stainless steels.

    Way more than any sane person would want to know, but then again ...... Hope someone finds this useful.
     
  18. Dec 29, 2009 #18

    Lvs2MffDv

    Lvs2MffDv

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    By the way, this thread allowed me to repair my sink drain in one fell swoop. Cudos to the posters.
     
  19. Jan 17, 2010 #19

    Dallas Diva

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    I can't believe how specific everyone has been. This will be my very first plumbing repair. I may be proven wrong when I get into it - but I think i can do this. As green as I am to ANY home repair - can anyone suggest what tools I will need to remove the current assembly and reinstall? I have a Craftsman RoboGrip and husband has various tools in the garage - though he is not around to help this weekend. I will get the putty - etc. mentioned previously. Anything else I might need? This may be sad - but I'm excited about tackling this. Also - play-off game at noon - should I even think about trying this before kick-off?
     
  20. Apr 28, 2010 #20

    rmcpherson9292

    rmcpherson9292

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    First if all I'm not a plumber and would let do nothing and he is dead.. Now..
    I want take metal pipe off on the drain, but it seems to be glued to the PVC elbow pipe.. The reason for this is I think it is leaking from the gasket Just below the sink drain. I want to replace it, it is old.. Can someone tell me how to do this.. Do saw the thing off,? will it come loose just reall tight?
    or any other help ...
    I would appreciate the help...Thanks in Advance...
     

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