House Building Questions

[Krich]

I was referring to the thing about if anything can go wrong it will... most would say that is seeing the glass half empty

 

[Snoonyb]

And I don't see it that way, You see, ethics is how you conduct yourself while the sun shines, and integrity is how you conduct yourself, when the lights are off, and for me, they are irrevocably conjoined.

"What can go wrong, will", drives me to accomplish tasks in such a manner that they will not fail.

 

[Krich]

That saying doesn't have anything to do with ethics or doing things right... instead it's about always having the expectation that things won't go right. The belief that bad things are going to happen all the time.

Seems like it would be better to believe and expect that things are going to go right and seek ways to do things right to reinforce the expectation of having a good outcome and IF things don't go right, we're going to do all we can to make them right if it's in our power to do so.

 

[Flyover]

I think the "do things so they can't fail"/"expect things to fail and so do things that will prevent those things happening" is a complicated interaction, not a one-or-the-other. NASA astronauts do an exercise where they sit around a table and brainstorm all the ways they might die, and then come up with lists of things that should happen in those cases, then figure out all the ways the items on those lists might fail and they end up dying anyway, etc. But I think those life-threatening accidents don't actually end up befalling them too much in reality, because they plan and train so well to prevent them.

Anyway back to underground elements...is one consideration not just whether it will be punctured, but the heating up and cooling down, at least at the points where it's above the frost line, and what effects that kind of wear & associated condensation and stuff will have on the materials after a while?

 

[Snoonyb]

That saying doesn't have anything to do with ethics or doing things right... instead it's about always having the expectation that things won't go right. The belief that bad things are going to happen all the time.

NO it isn't, It's conducting ones practice in a manner that prevents the eventuality of ones ethics or integrity being questioned.

Seems like it would be better to believe and expect that things are going to go right and seek ways to do things right to reinforce the expectation of having a good outcome and IF things don't go right, we're going to do all we can to make them right if it's in our power to do so.

Ethics and integrity are not a coin flip, and I'm never in a quandary about the longevity on my workmanship.

 

[Snoonyb]

I think the "do things so they can't fail"/"expect things to fail and so do things that will prevent those things happening" is a complicated interaction, not a one-or-the-other. NASA astronauts do an exercise where they sit around a table and brainstorm all the ways they might die, and then come up with lists of things that should happen in those cases, then figure out all the ways the items on those lists might fail and they end up dying anyway, etc. But I think those life-threatening accidents don't actually end up befalling them too much in reality, because they plan and train so well to prevent them.

However, there are common practices, learned and engrained, which last for decades and when a tradesman delineates from those, they are little more than self marketing.

 

[bud16415]

Little off topic but this half full/empty glass question caught my eye.



I once designed a special purpose machine to wind field coils for locomotive traction motors. It was early on in my career and I wanted to make something really good to the best of my design abilities. When built and put into service the only needs it had were to be greased and I even added an automatic grease system that worked off of timers and every few years the light would come on and it was time for a new barrel of grease to be replaced. This machine ran 3 shifts 24 hours a day for 6 days a week sometimes 7 for over 20 years.



I was sitting at my desk one day and the maintenance guy from the building it was in gives me a call and tells me to get over there right away as “this piece of crap machine” I designed broke down and needed a bearing replaced and he needed help on how to take it apart as no one there seemed to remember how to do it. I walked over and asked him how old he was? And he said 25, and I told him last time anyone worked on this “piece of crap machine” he was in kindergarten.



He was what I would call a half empty glass kind of person at that time. It was another 15 year until I retired and it was still chugging away and over the years talking with the guy when I would run into him and always bringing up the machine he kind of converted at least about that one machine to a half full guy.



Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

 

[Eddie_T]

Adjectives used ofttimes better describe the inner man rather than the real world around him.

 

[Flyover]

However, there are common practices, learned and engrained, which last for decades and when a tradesman delineates from those, they are little more than self marketing.

This is a solid position to take, and if you are trying to feed your family as a tradesman it will help you all sleep better at night.

But if everyone took this path there would be no innovation or adaptability, as well as few options for customers. Common practices are themselves the product of earlier tradesmen (perhaps optimistic "glass half-full" people) taking risks and learning from the consequences. How else did we wind up with all these different ways to do framing, roofs, plumbing, etc.

 

[Snoonyb]

This is a solid position to take, and if you are trying to feed your family as a tradesman it will help you all sleep better at night.

But if everyone took this path there would be no innovation or adaptability, as well as few options for customers. Common practices are themselves the product of earlier tradesmen (perhaps optimistic "glass half-full" people) taking risks and learning from the consequences. How else did we wind up with all these different ways to do framing, roofs, plumbing, etc.

While imagination and evolution, are boundless, delineating from secure practices can subject others to losses that could well have been avoided.

Who walks away, you!

 

[Krich]

NO it isn't, It's conducting ones practice in a manner that prevents the eventuality of ones ethics or integrity being questioned.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, but that's not what this saying is referring to.

Remember, the saying we were talking about is... "if anything can go wrong it will..." which is the expectation, the belief that things are very likely to go wrong and probably will.

One could have the very highest of ethics, engage the the very best workmanship, and demand the finest materials tools and equipment... and be worried sick that all is very likely to go wrong because they embrace and believe so called Murphy's Law which is "if anything can go wrong it will..."

Murphy's law
Murphy's law is an adage or epigram that is typically stated as: "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong." In some formulations, it is extended to "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong, and at the worst possible time."

This has nothing to do with one's ethics, workmanship, or quality of materials or parts being use to get a job done.

Ethics and integrity are not a coin flip, and I'm never in a quandary about the longevity on my workmanship.

Good to know.

 

[Snoonyb]

I always budget for the contingency that, "what can go wrong, will", & it's why I do not have, in 45yrs, any, self-induced call backs.

 

[Krich]

Nothing wrong at all with doing the very best we can do, but after putting forth one's best efforts one should have trust in the work they've done and believe things will go well.

Sure it's always possible for things to go wrong regardless of how good the work was, but it's self defeating to sit around worrying and wondering "when is the next shoe going to drop" (another common saying) like many do as thoughts of fear go thru their mind expecting things to somehow go wrong.

It would be best to do good work, have faith in your work, and then go forward as though the good work you've done will stand and nothing will go wrong.

In other words, kick Murphy and his ridiculous law in the back side and go forth with confidence that your work was great and all is well and don't even think about things going wrong after the job is done.