How to get these three outlets working?

[nealtw]

If it reads "0" volts then you are correct, it is in the wiring, and now the fun begins, you star by determining what that breaker controls and then opening light fixture boxes and conducting continuity as well as voltage checks.

He didn't say he checked both sides if there is short in this or downstream outlets it will not reset.
He did say this one will not reset.

 

[Snoonyb]

He didn't say he checked both sides if there is short in this or downstream outlets it will not reset.
He did say this one will not reset.

They will do that when there is no power provided.

 

[nealtw]

They will do that when there is no power provided.

He is testing for power. I hope he has the breaker set to on.:trophy:

 

[farmerjohn1324]

He didn't say he checked both sides if there is short in this or downstream outlets it will not reset.
He did say this one will not reset.

So what do I do to get these wires working? Here's a diagram of the house.

O = working outlet
S = working switch
X = non-working outlet

How do I determine what is the order of loads in the circuit and what does that tell me? I need to do continuity tests?

Edit: I just looked up what a continuity test is, and it is exactly what I've been doing by testing bare wire with a multimeter.

 

[nealtw]

Did you check both sides of the gfci? Power comes in one side and if it is tripped nothing will come out the other side..

 

[farmerjohn1324]

Did you check both sides of the gfci? Power comes in one side and if it is tripped nothing will come out the other side..

So I disconnect the GFCI outlet, then I perform continuity test on the line wires? Then on the load wires?

 

[nealtw]

So I disconnect the GFCI outlet, then I perform continuity test on the line wires? Then on the load wires?

Make sure the wires are separated and turn the breaker on and check for power Black to ground should be about 120, black to white should be around 120. check both sets of wires.

 

[farmerjohn1324]

Make sure the wires are separated and turn the breaker on and check for power Black to ground should be about 120, black to white should be around 120. check both sets of wires.

Okay that is where I will start with the GFCI outlet tomorrow.

What should be my next step for the wire that I determined wasn't working? (The one I think is on a different breaker than the other two). Do I have to find the order of loads in that circuit? Where to start? There is a working switch just to the right of it. Start there? And do what?

 

[Snoonyb]

"Edit: I just looked up what a continuity test is, and it is exactly what I've been doing by testing bare wire with a multimeter."

That is not what the photo of your meter indicates, it indicates that you are on the 200V scale, and that is where you should be.

You need to set the meter up just like in the photo, with the wirenuts off, the breaker own, test between the black conductor and the white conductor. Then between the black and the bare copper conductor, which is ground.

This will tell you if you have power available too the GFCI or, if you have open conductors someplace.

 

[farmerjohn1324]

"Edit: I just looked up what a continuity test is, and it is exactly what I've been doing by testing bare wire with a multimeter."

That is not what the photo of your meter indicates, it indicates that you are on the 200V scale, and that is where you should be.

You need to set the meter up just like in the photo, with the wirenuts off, the breaker own, test between the black conductor and the white conductor. Then between the black and the bare copper conductor, which is ground.

This will tell you if you have power available too the GFCI or, if you have open conductors someplace.

What do I do if I know there is no electricity flowing through the circuit? Like in this?

 

[nealtw]

Okay that is where I will start with the GFCI outlet tomorrow.

What should be my next step for the wire that I determined wasn't working? (The one I think is on a different breaker than the other two). Do I have to find the order of loads in that circuit? Where to start? There is a working switch just to the right of it. Start there? And do what?

You will have to find where the power is coming from, there might be a loose connection in an outlet that is working.

 

[Snoonyb]

This is typical of the last recep. in the circuit, in other words the circuit ends there.

What you are interested in is finding out why there in no power there.

It may very well be in the circuit with the GFCI, or it may not.

As a process of elimination I would first make sure there is no electricity present on any of the conductors by You need to set the meter up just like in the photo, with the wirenuts off, the breaker on, test between the black conductor and the white conductor. Then between the black and the bare copper conductor, which is ground.

You can follow the same procedure of the other recepticle, not the GFCI.

If the results are the same, in that you find no voltage reading, shut the breaker off and join the black and white conductors from the 1st recepticle and with you meter set on the OHMS scale, (the one by the horseshoe symbol), it's known as OMEGA, test between the black and white conductor on the second recepticle, not the GFCI.

If the meter reads 0, it means that those two receptacles are connected.

Remove the wirenut from the conductors on the 1st recepticle.

Proceed to the GFCI.

 

[farmerjohn1324]

This is typical of the last recep. in the circuit, in other words the circuit ends there.

What you are interested in is finding out why there in no power there.

It may very well be in the circuit with the GFCI, or it may not.

As a process of elimination I would first make sure there is no electricity present on any of the conductors by You need to set the meter up just like in the photo, with the wirenuts off, the breaker on, test between the black conductor and the white conductor. Then between the black and the bare copper conductor, which is ground.

You can follow the same procedure of the other recepticle, not the GFCI.

If the results are the same, in that you find no voltage reading, shut the breaker off and join the black and white conductors from the 1st recepticle and with you meter set on the OHMS scale, (the one by the horseshoe symbol), it's known as OMEGA, test between the black and white conductor on the second recepticle, not the GFCI.

If the meter reads 0, it means that those two receptacles are connected.

Remove the wirenut from the conductors on the 1st recepticle.

Proceed to the GFCI.

What are you calling the first receptacle?

Is it thee picture that I'm attaching? There are no wire nuts on any picture I've sent besides the GFCI outlet.

For reference, there are 3 non-working outlets. The picture attached is the one in a bathroom at the bottom left side of my sketch. I tested black to white and black to ground on 200V setting on multimeter and got 0. The GFCI is in the bathroom on the right side near the top. The other non-working outlet is in a bedroom on the extreme right wall.

 

[Snoonyb]

My reference point is the 3 receptacles in your 1st post, and the 1st recepticle is in the 1st photo, the 2nd in the 2nd photo and the 3rd is the GFCI.

Thanks, That means the power loss is somewhere before that, so go too the 2nd recepticle.

I'm off, so we'll proceed again later.

 

[afjes_2016]

Post #4:

Is there a way to verify that it is the outlet and not wiring? I have a multi-meter.

The important thing to keep in mind when attempting to test one of these type receptacles is again the fact that you can run tests of the receptacle in question, but unlike a regular home receptacle one of the major (failure) facts of this type is that the "pincers" may not be making contact with the metal of the conductor when the receptacle is sandwiched and tightened down. So you can test the receptacle all you want, if the pins (pincers) are at all damaged even at the slightest bit the pincer will fail to make contact with the metal inside the conductor (failing to fully penetrate the insulation).

You can test the GFCI by doing a continuity check. Place the meter on "ohms". Place one probe in one slot (either the hot, neutral or ground) place the other probe on the corresponding wire of the GFCI if you get continuity on all three then the GFCI is functioning correctly. But you would have to be sure the the gfci is not tripped itself first. even if it is not hooked to power. if it is tripped you will not continuity.

if you touch on probe to either the hot, neutral or ground and the other probe to the other two and you get continuity it means something ain't kosher.

Again, you could be beating yourself up attempting to track down this issue.

If it were me and I had to do it. What I would first due is eliminate the possibility of one of those darn crappy all in one receptacles as being the culprit.
I would:
Remove all of the receptacles in the path of the last known working receptacle (removing this one also). Then wire nut my hots, neutrals and grounds together respectively at each receptacle location. Go to the end of the circuit (last known non working receptacle). Take those conductors, hot, neutral and ground. Take your multi meter, check hot to neutral, hot to ground, neutral to ground.
If i get 120 v hot to neutral and hot to ground then I know it is one of those stupid receptacles. reinsert one receptacle at a time by going to your first. Remove the wire nuts. place the conductors in the all in one. go to the end of the circuit. repeat the test above. if you get proper power then reinsert the next receptacle down line from the last newly inserted receptacle. repeat this process to the end; the last receptacle. doing this will eliminate the fact that the pincers are not the ultimate culprit. But also, when inserting the new receptacle and testing the end of the circuit and then you know that newly inserted receptacle is functioning, place that newly inserted receptacle in the wall and anchor it. again test the end of the circuit. this will ensure that while working with that newly inserted receptacle that while you were handling the receptacle and anchoring into the wall that the pincers did not somehow come dislodged and lose you continuity of the circuit or you can end up repeating this all over again. If these were regular receptacles i would just run the initial test and using new $1.5 receptacles and save myself the headache.

And of course other than testing at the end of the circuit for voltage reading at each step be sure to turn the proper breaker off

 

[farmerjohn1324]

My reference point is the 3 receptacles in your 1st post, and the 1st recepticle is in the 1st photo, the 2nd in the 2nd photo and the 3rd is the GFCI.

Thanks, That means the power loss is somewhere before that, so go too the 2nd recepticle.

I'm off, so we'll proceed again later.

I'm going back tomorrow to work on these. My plan is to check every outlet and switch in the house for loose connections (wire nut connections, stab-in-back connections, screw terminal connections). Is that what I should be doing?

If I verify that they are all connected correctly, where do I go from there? What could be the problem if not that?

 

[farmerjohn1324]

Post #4:


The important thing to keep in mind when attempting to test one of these type receptacles is again the fact that you can run tests of the receptacle in question, but unlike a regular home receptacle one of the major (failure) facts of this type is that the "pincers" may not be making contact with the metal of the conductor when the receptacle is sandwiched and tightened down. So you can test the receptacle all you want, if the pins (pincers) are at all damaged even at the slightest bit the pincer will fail to make contact with the metal inside the conductor (failing to fully penetrate the insulation).

You can test the GFCI by doing a continuity check. Place the meter on "ohms". Place one probe in one slot (either the hot, neutral or ground) place the other probe on the corresponding wire of the GFCI if you get continuity on all three then the GFCI is functioning correctly. But you would have to be sure the the gfci is not tripped itself first. even if it is not hooked to power. if it is tripped you will not continuity.

if you touch on probe to either the hot, neutral or ground and the other probe to the other two and you get continuity it means something ain't kosher.

Again, you could be beating yourself up attempting to track down this issue.

If it were me and I had to do it. What I would first due is eliminate the possibility of one of those darn crappy all in one receptacles as being the culprit.
I would:
Remove all of the receptacles in the path of the last known working receptacle (removing this one also). Then wire nut my hots, neutrals and grounds together respectively at each receptacle location. Go to the end of the circuit (last known non working receptacle). Take those conductors, hot, neutral and ground. Take your multi meter, check hot to neutral, hot to ground, neutral to ground.
If i get 120 v hot to neutral and hot to ground then I know it is one of those stupid receptacles. reinsert one receptacle at a time by going to your first. Remove the wire nuts. place the conductors in the all in one. go to the end of the circuit. repeat the test above. if you get proper power then reinsert the next receptacle down line from the last newly inserted receptacle. repeat this process to the end; the last receptacle. doing this will eliminate the fact that the pincers are not the ultimate culprit. But also, when inserting the new receptacle and testing the end of the circuit and then you know that newly inserted receptacle is functioning, place that newly inserted receptacle in the wall and anchor it. again test the end of the circuit. this will ensure that while working with that newly inserted receptacle that while you were handling the receptacle and anchoring into the wall that the pincers did not somehow come dislodged and lose you continuity of the circuit or you can end up repeating this all over again. If these were regular receptacles i would just run the initial test and using new $1.5 receptacles and save myself the headache.

And of course other than testing at the end of the circuit for voltage reading at each step be sure to turn the proper breaker off

But how do I know what order the circuit is in?

 

[Snoonyb]

I'm going back tomorrow to work on these. My plan is to check every outlet and switch in the house for loose connections (wire nut connections, stab-in-back connections, screw terminal connections). Is that what I should be doing?

If I verify that they are all connected correctly, where do I go from there? What could be the problem if not that?

Also include the light fixtures as they can be distribution points.

We'll only know "what's next", by you telling us what isn't working, when you are finished.

 

[frodo]

check any receptacles for being terminated by back stabbed
instead of wire screwed on the side.
back stabbed is notorious for connection failure

 

[afjes_2016]

But how do I know what order the circuit is in?

Complete the troubleshooting I described (if you so choose) with all of the receptacles that are non functional. Be sure the power is off at the breaker prior to each of the steps of the troubleshooting. My biggest concern is that these all in ones if not sandwiched properly and evenly pressured just don't make good connections and I don't want to see you chasing your tail around because of it.