Now that you have all of the "plug-ins", unplugged, does the "buzzing" persist, or have you plugged them back in, in succession, to determine the source?
Replacing switches in bath 4-function exhaust/heater/lights unit
- Thread starter theorbo
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Help Support House Repair Talk:
Now that you have all of the "plug-ins", unplugged, does the "buzzing" persist, or have you plugged them back in, in succession, to determine the source?
nealtw
Contractor retired
So we don't have 240 volts, just 2 X 120 volts, Are the tied together, do you have to turn them both off at the same time, I do not see a joiner?
The half sized ground indicates some of the wire is from the 50s.
Most of the breakers are 20 amp, is the wire 12, if they are 14 the breakers should be 15 amps
We don't know if there are 2 feeds to any part of this system.
The OPs wiring looked correct but we can not tell which wire came from which cable
We don't know what the noise was
We do not know which box was fed from the breaker.
The half sized ground indicates some of the wire is from the 50s.
Most of the breakers are 20 amp, is the wire 12, if they are 14 the breakers should be 15 amps
We don't know if there are 2 feeds to any part of this system.
The OPs wiring looked correct but we can not tell which wire came from which cable
We don't know what the noise was
We do not know which box was fed from the breaker.
slownsteady
Well-Known Member
I can't be positive from that picture, but it doesn't look like a double pole breaker, just a tandem. I can't see any physical connection between the switches. can you throw each switch independently? if you can, then you need to make distinction between "breaker 4A" and "breaker 4B". Okay, your unit is wired in the housing somewhat different than mine, so part of what I said above may be invalid. Mine has 4 outlets and 4 plugs (1 for each of the functions).
It's possible that you have 2 hot lines coming into the switchbox. Could be the installer put the heat element on it's own circuit. Again, you need to check each wire individually for current.
It's possible that you have 2 hot lines coming into the switchbox. Could be the installer put the heat element on it's own circuit. Again, you need to check each wire individually for current.
He doesn’t have enough wires to have two feeds in the Jbox. It could have been run with two feeds to the Nutone and brought only one back down to the jbox. I actually looked to see if Nutone did anything like that so the heater could be on its own line and turned on and off with a relay from the heater switch. I couldn’t find any option for one to work that way though. The heater draws 1700 watts and then the fan and a couple lights you are getting close.
nealtw
Contractor retired
The way it was wired, it looks like one feed. I am concerned about the size of wire. Built in the 50s with 12 gauge wire, I am just not a believe and that would be a fire hazard. From what we can see all the breakers are 20 amps.
Ok, well I have learned some things. So you are right, these breakers DO actually move independently. Sorry about misleading you all there ... in my previous residences anytime you had something that looked and felt like these breakers do, it meant they went together. So of course each time I was putting my finger in between the two and throwing them together.
It was slightly weird that the panel has numbers for each "bay" but no indication that there are actually two breakers per number.
I also figured out together that there are actually 6 GFCI outlets in another bathroom that are on either circuits 4A or 4B. So they are currently off, as is the Nutone unit.
If at the circuit breaker I close 4a I hear the buzzing noise but if I close 4b I do not. From the handwriting to the right of the panel, I believe that 4b is actually the circuit that the Nutone fixture is wired to.
So I still don't know what the buzzing/rattling noise is when I energize circuit 4a.
nealtw
Contractor retired
Each slot was made for one breaker and in most cases that is what they had when they were new.
My guess is that is not original to the house, and then someone else changed all the breaker to doubles. All the 20 amp breakers need a bigger wire than a 15 amp breaker would use.
Can you turn on one and get the other bathroom up and running. Could it be just a noisy fan in that bathroom.
My guess is that is not original to the house, and then someone else changed all the breaker to doubles. All the 20 amp breakers need a bigger wire than a 15 amp breaker would use.
Can you turn on one and get the other bathroom up and running. Could it be just a noisy fan in that bathroom.
You previously suspected, with some certainty, that the noise originated from the appliance.
Are all the internal components of the appliance still unplugged?
No, I don't think that is it. The fan in that bathroom is already on a rotary mechanical timer and is currently working with the breakers in their current position. Only the outlets in that bathroom are not working. This home underwent some remodeling at some point and these GFCI outlets (6 of them!) were added or at least were replaced.
Snoonyb, the interior plugs of the device are still unattached. I have not left the breaker closed long enough to walk around and listen from many different locations but when I was upstairs near the unit and a friend closed that breaker it did sound like it was coming from above me in that direction. I do not know what else is up there that could be making that sound.
I wish I could close the breaker and roam around to pinpoint the sound's origin. Would the breaker open the circuit if the cause of the noise is dangerous? For instance would a fire-causing short or arc-ing be a possible cause for this noise?
nealtw
Contractor retired
Is the heat part of that same unit or is it a different unit?
There needs to be a relative time to occurrences parallel.
Did your friend turn the breaker on AFTER you had unplugged the appliance components, or before?
You could have a marginal doorbell transformer acting up.
I'd turn the breaker on and if there is no noise, start plugging the components in to source the noise.
I have two bathrooms:
The first is my master bath and it has the Nutone 4-Function device which is currently disconnected and is what I am trying to replace the switches. Also in this master bath is a GFCI, and two other lights, all of which are functioning.
My second bath is a hall bath and it has the 6 GFCI (not functioning) and two overhead lights (functioning) as well as a single-function exhaust fan which is on a timer and is currently functioning.
The first is my master bath and it has the Nutone 4-Function device which is currently disconnected and is what I am trying to replace the switches. Also in this master bath is a GFCI, and two other lights, all of which are functioning.
My second bath is a hall bath and it has the 6 GFCI (not functioning) and two overhead lights (functioning) as well as a single-function exhaust fan which is on a timer and is currently functioning.
This house *does* have doorbell transformers but I don't think any of them are in the vicinity of where I've heard the noise. If I close the breaker "4a" then the noise is still there (with the device components unplugged) and it was there before prior to my disconnecting the device components.
slownsteady
Well-Known Member
theorbo: you've got a few issues here and it's hard to tell which are related. it may be better to solve these one-issue-at-a-time. let's see if we can isolate that buzz.
So here's the first question: before you started this project, and when you had all your breakers on, did you hear the buzzing noise? Ever?
Now, with all breakers on, and the wires for the nutone disconnected from each other, do you hear the noise?
And with just breaker for the Nutone (4B?) off, do you hear the noise? Make sure to hit the reset buttons on all of those GFCI outlets.
So here's the first question: before you started this project, and when you had all your breakers on, did you hear the buzzing noise? Ever?
Now, with all breakers on, and the wires for the nutone disconnected from each other, do you hear the noise?
And with just breaker for the Nutone (4B?) off, do you hear the noise? Make sure to hit the reset buttons on all of those GFCI outlets.
nealtw
Contractor retired
he outlets in the other bath are not working, check for electric razer, hair dryer or anything that might have been turn on and left because they didn't work.
Thank you.
Is the attic accessible?
Do you have a voltage tester, other than a proximity?
Agreed - thanks to all of you for your questions and patience as we work through this.
Before I ever did anything everything was working as I expected it to and there was no buzzing noise. To confirm, I had all breakers in the on position at this point. Since I purchased this home 2.5 years ago I have never heard anything like that. And just to give a little more color about what it sounds like ... I recently had the blower motor in my furnace wear out. It was getting electricity but not turning-over, making a loud buzz/hum noise. Hopefully that is descriptive to some of you.
If I turn both of the "4" breakers on I do hear the buzz. 4a = buzz but 4b does not. If only "4b" is closed then I do not hear the buzz. If "4a" is closed then I hear the buzz. If "4a" and "4b" are both closed then I hear the buzz.
Should I hit the reset button of all the GFCIs and then check again?
Thanks that is a good idea. Unfortunately nothing is plugged into the 6 outlets in the hall bath with the exception of a small lamp which is in the off position and should not turn on when the outlets are energized.
Yes, I have access to the attic and I have a digital multi-meter.
