Tesla Achilles Heel

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ekrig

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First, thank you for your detailed and reasoned reply. A few thoughts:
I think that you are missing my point about the forest and thinking about the trees.
  • "Do you have any evidence of residential distribution issues [...]": My point is not specifically about EVs but about the general state of our grid. For example, in your other message you mention the blackouts. If our grid struggles with these events which happen on a recurring basis, why wouldn't those problems be potential exacerbated by adding the load of charging EVs. In fact, if you read the technical journals (e.g., IEEE Transactions on Power Systems - IEEE Power and Energy Society, Electric Power Systems Research - Journal - Elsevier), there is much discussion on potential ways around this (like the phased time to charge the car I mentioned earlier) but it is going to be anything but simple.

  • "grid-level battery storage solutions": Flow batteries are very promising indeed but, again, they are not economical at scale. Scaling them up in an economical (all the while taking into consideration environmental risks, etc.) was the whole reason why previous employer had a whole bunch of people working on them. Of course, for the army, the price premium is worth it because the real reason they are buying it is insurance against potential events take the grid down.

  • "life-cycle emissions": The references that you included actually support my point about "short-" vs. "long-term". The emissions from building an EV are higher than an ICE car and therefore they need to be driven for a substantial number of miles before the break even point in terms of life-cycle emissions. Even if one is charging the car entirely from solar panels on one's roof, the break even point is like 50k miles. But lets be honest, if the car is charging from one own's solar panels then the car must be at home in the middle of the day, in which case probably not many miles are being driven. Otherwise, the car is being used to commute, in which case the first point above is crucial. Note that I don't have references at hand but I didn't get this from the internet either; I was fortunate to be able to watch many presentations from professor and scientists that research on these topics (i.e., the ones publishing articles on technical journals).
Ultimately, as I believe I have mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, I think that the evolution of the energy systems is most likely inevitable. Seeking ways to generate energy that are cleaner and have lower environmental impact is very important. Heck, I even said that I would consider EVs and would install solar panels if I had any significant facet of my roof facing South. The point is keep coming back to is the lack of a systematic long-term perspective that acknowledges the technical challenges of many of these things and keeps it a free, open market for innovation. That would get us a better and much, much cheaper solution. What we see today is many people enabling politicians gambling, or "returning favors" to their donors, with our tax money. Mind you,this happens on both sides, just with a different flavor and intensity.
 

Eddie_T

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A goodly portion of the grid is old equipment. Transformers that cannot be pushed to 50% peak overload conditions as often w/o increasing failure rate. My underground high voltage feed cable had to be replaced this season due to three failures in a couple of years. My yard transformer was replaced several years ago because it blew. I may be in better shape than most as I am the only house served by the transformer. I know it had at least one more set of secondary lugs so I am assuming it to be a two-house transformer.
 

BuzzLOL

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The question is who is going to do that, and what is the economic incentive to do so?
We already know that. Same as the incentive to pay $$Billions to the shots makers for deadly nonworking fake 'vaccine' shots: Bribes to politicians... of a party we're not allowed to mention...
 

68bucks

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You must mean all the tax payer money spent on operation warp speed? I agree we know who will pay to upgrade the grid. If it's easy to do and capitalize on then some company will step right in. If it's hard and expensive with unclear means to profit then the public will foot the bill. Sort of the way it always goes.
 

Spicoli43

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What is the cause of these potential blackouts? #1: Record heat waves due to Global Warming. #2: Record high prices for fossil fuels. #3: Wildfires in the American West, due to years of extreme drought caused by Global Warming -- which result in downed powerlines:

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There's no such thing as "Record heat waves due to Global Warming"... The Ice age ended about 12,500 years ago, and it was probably the temps we see today 10,000 years ago.

Wildfires in the West are caused by several factors, but it's no warmer in Phoenix now than it was in the 50's. It's always been hotter there. As far as California, the Liberals running that state for eons couldn't figure out how to manage their forests if their lives depended on it. That, and they build their houses close enough that somebody can reach out the window and knock on their neighbor's house. When a fire starts, the entire town is gone like we have seen... Nothing to do with "Global Warming"

When you see 8 foot piles of branches and brush and dead timber in forests like I did as a Firefighter, that is called Fuel. In CA, OR and WA, they don't take care of the forests or they don't have the cash to do so. The entire two terms of Obama had no relief for fires. Trump's 2017 or 2018 budget gave the USFS, DNR, and State agencies the cash to take care of the forests and do controlled back burns. The result was much less in the way of big fires and extreme smoke.

There's fires every year, but in MT, we get smoke from CA, OR, WA, UT, NV, ID, WY, and Canada. It's easy to tell when the agencies have been taking care of the forests and when they haven't. During the Obama "Can't fight the Spotted Owl" years, the entire summer was smoky. For 2 months straight in 2016, I couldn't see the Mountains from my windows.
 

BuzzLOL

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There's no such thing as "Record heat waves due to Global Warming"... The Ice age ended about 12,500 years ago, and it was probably the temps we see today 10,000 years ago.
The earth has been slowly warming for past 12,500 years... the warming was started by all those cars 12,500 years ago... some foolish people think the warming is natural...
 

BuzzLOL

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You must mean all the tax payer money spent on operation warp speed?
Once we realized the deadly fake 'vaccine' shots don't work, we were scammed, we should have stopped paying for more... and asked for our money back... and stopped firing people for refusing them... put the mandators in prison...
 

Spicoli43

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The earth has been slowly warming for past 12,500 years... the warming was started by all those cars 12,500 years ago... some foolish people think the warming is natural...
Yes, and Cow Flatulence and Camel Flatulence.
 

Snoonyb

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The question I have, for those who are proponents of electrification is:

Were the administration, in their "big green" push, decided to immediately mandate, that only power sourced from wind and solar would be authorized to continue to operate.

Would there be street lights?
Would property taxes still be demanded?
Would there be public transportation?
Would health care be available, and where?
What would the size of the batter-pack need to be, for city services to continue uninterrupted, and for how long?

The Kaiser Hospital In Irvine CA, power management building is about the size of a R-1 residential house, and can, ostensibly, operate the facility, uninterrupted, for 48 too 72 hrs.

Global warming, or climate change, you bet, It's called weather, learn to live with it, It'll broaden your "horizontal" perspective.
 

Flyover

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Sorry for the quick derail, I just have one off-topic question.

Spicoli, you keep calling Obama the current president. I think you are implying Biden is a puppet figure and Obama is really the one pulling the strings. Is that right?

I'm asking because I've never seen anyone else saying that but if it's a thing people are saying, it seems in line with other narratives I've seen that cast Biden in the role of a harmless old grandad figure, which I sense is what Biden wants everyone to think about him.
 

BuzzLOL

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Spicoli, you keep calling Obama the current president. I think you are implying Biden is a puppet figure and Obama is really the one pulling the strings. Is that right? I'm asking because I've never seen anyone else saying that but if it's a thing people are saying, it seems in line with other narratives I've seen that cast Biden in the role of a harmless old grandad figure, which I sense is what Biden wants everyone to think about him.
Where you been? Three fourths of the country refers to Hitlerite Jokementia Bribery as Obummer's 3rd Term. And he's hardly "harmless" as he has ordered millions of people fired if they refuse the deadly nonworking fake 'vaccine' jab! And allowed Putin into Ukraine and 20,000 people killed... etc...
 

68bucks

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The question I have, for those who are proponents of electrification is:

Were the administration, in their "big green" push, decided to immediately mandate, that only power sourced from wind and solar would be authorized to continue to operate.

Would there be street lights?
Would property taxes still be demanded?
Would there be public transportation?
Would health care be available, and where?
What would the size of the batter-pack need to be, for city services to continue uninterrupted, and for how long?

The Kaiser Hospital In Irvine CA, power management building is about the size of a R-1 residential house, and can, ostensibly, operate the facility, uninterrupted, for 48 too 72 hrs.

Global warming, or climate change, you bet, It's called weather, learn to live with it, It'll broaden your "horizontal" perspective.
I don't know that Im a "proponent" of electrification but I do think that's where we're headed eventually. Of course the answer to your questions is yes we would have all those things you mentioned and then some. Batteries would be small and super efficient etc. but of course that's not the case today just like your "what if" is not the case so it's sort of a moot point imo. The change will be gradual with each administration pushing the system one way or another. The big time greenies will tell you one thing while the fossil fuel crowd will tell you the opposite. The facts and truth will be in between somewhere, as usual. Oil will get more and more expensive as the easily extracted supply continues to deminish. At some point it will be too valuable to just burn up in a car.

So the whole climate change deal is a harder nut to crack. I'm not an expert on climate so I don't have the credentials to really state facts. I don't consider browsing the web reading articles from my favorite sources as giving me credibility or even facts. I did a bunch of research and wrote a 20 page paper on it about 25 years ago disputing the notion of man-made climate change. These days I'm less sure of that position. I just know if we get it wrong I could be setting my grandkids and some day great grandkids up for a potential miserable existence. Or I can make some generally modest changes in lifestyle and habits and possibly help prevent that. Or I can just throw up my arms and say it's all fake and screw you I got mine you figure it out, won't be my problem, I'll be dead. Sort of like we're doing with the national debt.
 

Spicoli43

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Yeah, I'll go with Buzz's description. I don't know where anybody has reached in and pulled out "harmless old granddad"... I don't think it's the showering with his Daughter thing or sniffing everybody else's kids for starters... Here's a short clip, though..

 

BuzzLOL

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...I do think that's where we're headed eventually....
As we've seen with the deadly nonworking fake 'vaccine' shots, we head in the direction of the most bribes/'donations'...
 

bud16415

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We can talk about EVs or I can close the thread what be it?
 

bud16415

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So you want to talk about EV's while ignoring the elephant in the room again...
I don't think Dr Fauci has much to do with EV's and in particular Tesla EV's.

Every problem in the world is not a Dr Fauci caused problem. Start a Dr Fauci thread in the misc. forum and knock yourself out. Once you start it if people insist on talking about EV batteries in it I will come and remind them to come here.
 

BuzzLOL

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I don't think Dr Fauci has much to do with EV's and in particular Tesla EV's. Every problem in the world is not a Dr Fauci caused problem. Start a Dr Fauci thread in the misc. forum and knock yourself out. Once you start it if people insist on talking about EV batteries in it I will come and remind them to come here.
Guess you missed the point that it's bribes/politics controlling EVERYTHING now... not bribed to lie 'Fauci' who's own lies aren't working for him/not protecting him from the flu...
 
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