Tesla Achilles Heel

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Great video. Unfortunately, politicians on both sides never listen to common sense, they listen to who has the biggest briefcase filled with cash.
 
Is everybody aware, that surfing was invented, to discourage the truly intellectuals, from taking over the world?
 
Flyover said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36481590/ford-f150-lightning-range-towing/
https://insideevs.com/news/589421/ford-f150-lightning-towing-range-reduction/
The second link is anecdotal but seems to back up the prediction made in the first link. Ford F-150 Lightning range dramatically decreases when towing even just a 3-ton camper.
Click to expand...
No matter the power supply (Work = Force x Distance). Some things just don't change.
When marketing step in they like to paint a rose colored picture. Going up hill, into the wind, or pulling a camper is going to require more energy.
 
Sorry, I phrased it sloppily. I believe Ford acknowledged there'd be less range while towing (I'll just call this "RWT"), but the actual RWT turned out to be an alarming 50% lower than Ford's RWT estimate. (In that one anecdote.)
 
Flyover said:
Sorry, I phrased it sloppily. I believe Ford acknowledged there'd be less range while towing (I'll just call this "RWT"), but the actual RWT turned out to be an alarming 50% lower than Ford's RWT estimate. (In that one anecdote.)
Click to expand...
I understand that is also a brand new truck with everything properly lubed and tires inflated to likely the max on a level test track with a brand new fully charged battery. My GMC 2500 full size pick m up I just sold had 300,000 miles on and plowed snow for 20 winters up here on the Great Lakes. It got all the proper service intervals and only required minor repairs to the 350CI drive train. It was not the truck I bought at the end of my time with it, but the guy that bought it seemed pretty happy to get it. I wonder now at $5.05 per gallon if he is still happy.

I have no plans to ever getting another pick up truck even though I would love to have one. I kind of wonder if an EV could plow snow and make 300k miles and still have a resale value 20 years from now. I know when plowing the gas gage really went down fast. If you ever notice most guys plowing have one or both windows down. Running the heater helps cool the engine and the truck puts out so much heat you need the windows down.
 
Anecdotal vs double blind study?

I suspect that like with meds my own (N of 1) experience trumps what someone else tells me w/regard to miles-per-whatever.
 
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Cleaned up the thread now lets keep it civil and talk about EVs.

If that is impossible then we will think of something else.
 
I don't want that thing on the side of my house plus is it theft proof?

1655501736067.png
 
You can place the EV charging port wherever it is convenient and suitable to match your preferences. Plus the port can be enclosed in a box to match the design of your home, or inset into the wall with a cover, plus many different models are available. See one example below.

As for 'theft protection', an EV charging port (a) is connected to 220v lines, which will probably 'surprise' a foolish burgler, (b) can be protected by a locked box or locked cover if this is a concern in your neighborhood, and (c) there isn't a big market for used and stolen residential EV chargers - and no theft problem has been reported. Someone trying to charge their car on your account is much more likely, e.g. if you are on vacation, but again -- you can protect access to the port as noted above, if this is a concern.

In short, this is not a reason to avoid an EV - with all of the cost reductions, performance and benefits that an EV delivers.


1655503412068.png
 
So the ugly box has to go somewhere and a smart thief could take it.

I read one report where a researcher simulated "a residential distribution transformer connected to six households" with 11 vehicles total. The transformer could handle up to six electric cars charging with Level 1 charging, but the simulated transformer saw demand in excess of its nominal capacity as soon as one EV with Level 2 charging was added to the neighborhood.

Most people that are considering one are also considering the level 2 charger. Currently my utility would like me to let them enable my water heater at night.
 
A 'smart' thief would avoid a low-cost, low demand, hard to fence residential charging port -- in favor of the nice rims and tires on your car (or the entire car), easy to sell jewelry and electronic stuff inside your home. Plus, are there any reports of problems with residential EV port thefts? Of course not.

As for the ability of our grid to handle EVs, here is a good review by Forbes. Can you provide a link to the "report" you mentioned?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/
 
I've read some horror stories of people trying to find active publically available chargers while on an impromptu trip. Often plans had to be altered. That will improve as EVs become more popular but problems will occur and even with a 'N of 1' if I happened to be that one it could ruin a trip.

Modulated chargers in a neighborhood could solve the transformer overload problem. But I have been unwilling to surrender control of my water heater or heat pump so far.

As for thefts thieves will sell copper. There's always a market for copper and 240V is only 120V to ground (no problem with rubber soles on asphalt or concrete). Who knows what they will steal until they do.
 
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BvilleBound said:
As for the ability of our grid to handle EVs, here is a good review by Forbes. Can you provide a link to the "report" you mentioned?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/
Click to expand...

Thanks for the interesting read. There are a number of aspects that the author's perspective fails to consider however.

First of all, it talks about overall electric generation capacity. Yet, when I talk about grid issues the main thing on my mind is actually the transmission and distribution lines, transformers connecting to the house, etc. The current analog to the situation of a large number of people arriving home from work and plugging in their EVs, is when most people turn on their AC in the late afternoon when they get home. During the hot summer months this causes all sorts of problems. So, if our grid, in terms of generation capacity, distribution or otherwise, struggles with the current situation, how much headroom is their to add a significant number of EVs?

I anticipate that someone is going to say that "we need to invest in the grid". The question is who is going to do that, and what is the economic incentive to do so? That's a whole in and of itself. For the sake of brevity, lets just say that people are saying that it is cheaper or something are thinking short-term. The problem there being that in the short-term the life-cycle emissions of EVs are actually quite bad.

The second main problem with the article is that it talks about correct management of the supply. That cannot be achieved with renewables, except perhaps hydro (which have their own set of environmental issues). What is the alternative? Most likely natural gas power plants but, if they are only going to be online for a few hours a day, the economics are terrible. So, if we need them, someone is going to have to pay premium.

I must admit that when I read "need proper management" in the title, I was expecting that it was going to advocate for having a system which could be controlled by the grid to phase the charging of different people's car such as to balance the peak load, also as @Eddie_T was mentioned. I read something to that end in a technical Electrical Engineering journal. Putting the whole issue of "relinquish the control over allocation of one's house power" aside for a moment, this would require nearly everyone to install whole new electric panels and connections to support such aspects. That's _at a bare minimum_ a $5k endeavor; quite a significant chunk of money to "force" everyone to pay.
 
Eddie_T said:
I've read some horror stories of people trying to find active publically available chargers while on an impromptu trip. Often plans had to be altered. That will improve as EVs become more popular but problems will occur and even with a 'N of 1' if I happened to be that one it could ruin a trip.

Modulated chargers in a neighborhood could solve the transformer overload problem. But I have been unwilling to surrender control of my water heater or heat pump so far.

As for thefts thieves will sell copper. There's always a market for copper and 240V is only 120V to ground (no problem with rubber soles on asphalt or concrete). Who knows what they will steal until they do.
Click to expand...
ekrig said:
Thanks for the interesting read. There are a number of aspects that the author's perspective fails to consider however.

First of all, it talks about overall electric generation capacity. Yet, when I talk about grid issues the main thing on my mind is actually the transmission and distribution lines, transformers connecting to the house, etc. The current analog to the situation of a large number of people arriving home from work and plugging in their EVs, is when most people turn on their AC in the late afternoon when they get home. During the hot summer months this causes all sorts of problems. So, if our grid, in terms of generation capacity, distribution or otherwise, struggles with the current situation, how much headroom is their to add a significant number of EVs?

I anticipate that someone is going to say that "we need to invest in the grid". The question is who is going to do that, and what is the economic incentive to do so? That's a whole in and of itself. For the sake of brevity, lets just say that people are saying that it is cheaper or something are thinking short-term. The problem there being that in the short-term the life-cycle emissions of EVs are actually quite bad.

The second main problem with the article is that it talks about correct management of the supply. That cannot be achieved with renewables, except perhaps hydro (which have their own set of environmental issues). What is the alternative? Most likely natural gas power plants but, if they are only going to be online for a few hours a day, the economics are terrible. So, if we need them, someone is going to have to pay premium.

I must admit that when I read "need proper management" in the title, I was expecting that it was going to advocate for having a system which could be controlled by the grid to phase the charging of different people's car such as to balance the peak load, also as @Eddie_T was mentioned. I read something to that end in a technical Electrical Engineering journal. Putting the whole issue of "relinquish the control over allocation of one's house power" aside for a moment, this would require nearly everyone to install whole new electric panels and connections to support such aspects. That's _at a bare minimum_ a $5k endeavor; quite a significant chunk of money to "force" everyone to pay.
Click to expand...

First, thank you for your detailed and reasoned reply. A few thoughts:
 
EVs may present a way to make a buck. One person shared that a private citizen that had posted on PlugShare let him charge for 5.5 hrs. He didn't say what he did while it charged. Somewhere else they watched a movie on a laptop while they got a 4 hour charge. Maybe not for me as my house is not in town and I wouldn't want the presence of strangers for 4 or 5 hours.
 
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